Power management and savings

[chilli]

First off, thanks for a great solution for a home network. I spent several months trying to setup OpenSUSE, Vuze, a printer and Samba with very little success. Afterwards, I had very little use for the machine; you have given me a great tool to use for several purposes. Thank you so much.

I was trying to setup my HDA to conserve power for economical as well as environmental reasons and found Fedora 10 to be less than accommodating. I was thinking it would be nice to see a module designed to help us Linux understudies (aka Newbies) create power schemes or make settings to help control power usage.

For example, every night at midnight I would like the computer to turn off and then restart at 7:00 am. However, if I'm up at say 2:00 am, I want the computer to start up for me when I access the internet (I know, WOL, but I want more control). Furthermore, if I'm in the middle of a file transfer such as a torrent, or worse yet the dreaded Windoze file transfer, I don't want the computer to shut down until the task is complete; maybe skip the entire shutdown all together at that time. I'm sure anyone could come up with multiple scenarios for such control.

At my current level of understanding, I have no idea how to create such a setup to accomplish the above task (which is pretty much what I'm after). What I do know is saving money on the electric bill is a good thing.

Again, thank you for such a great program and all the work all of you put into the program.

Barry

[bsk]

Well, thats asking for alot . lol.

Amahi stays on and does not go into sleep because it handles all dhcp issues as well as file transfers and other things, thats like turning off your router as well. I can understand that it can save money, but depending on the hardware (and how old it is and exactly what you do with the server) affects the draw of power. Newer hardware and software manage this nicely, but older does not.

Now knowing that the software is newer, it still can pose a problem as to it not being able to monitor or control the old hardware thats in the system.

So my first question is, how much difference are you seeing on your elec bill, and also how old is the machine you are running?

[chilli]

Thanks for the quick response to my suggestions. I figured I was probably asking a lot since I noticed that neither Linux or Windoze offers the greatest power management interfaces. Still, I thought I'd throw it out there.

As far as my electric bill is concerned, I have no idea if there is a significant impact from running the server 24/7; my air conditioner makes me feel guilty, albeit comfortable, enough to not feel guilty about my server (California's Central Valley is quite the furnace in the summer).

I guess what I was thinking is that since I don't use the server for several hours each day, having it power down on its own might be a good thing. You know the old saying, "It all adds up." Well, if I'm saving a little money here and there everyday by reducing my electric bill then eventually it adds up. Of course, I could get off my lazy duff and push the power button and use VNC.

However, there is the Wife Acceptance Factor (WAF) and if she has to fiddle with turning things on and off, things she doesn't want to understand (that's my job according to her), then the WAF takes a serious hit and can tank the whole operation (no, I'm not complaining, I'm just acknowledging the WAF).

Your right, turning off the server is akin to turning off the router and I do understand that it needs to stay on to perform its functions, I was just hoping there might be a good solution to help eek out that little bit of savings.

Now, for the irony of the post and to answer your question about my hardware - it's all brand new because my old server went south on me a few weeks ago. I have the following:

AMD Athlon 64 2.7GHz (45 watt)
ECS Geforce6100PM-M2 (built in video, LAN, sound, etc)
4GB OCZ DDR2 800MHz RAM
2 Western Digital 500 GB SATA 3GB/s
Pioneer DVD Burner
350 Watt PSU
No add-on cards

No overclocking, no special things going on, just a plain old server doing what it's supposed to do. I imagine that it is all pretty energy efficient compared to my 8 year old hardware I just graduated from; however, I'm cheap and I WANT THAT POWER SAVINGS!!

All jokes aside, I'm just trying to be a little more conscious about how I use things, including the power switch, and see where I can save a few bucks. When I finally find that spare $60,000.00 I misplaced, I'm getting a full solar setup and I won't care how much I run my server, or air conditioner for that matter.

Again, thanks for the quick response and I look forward to learning more from your response.

Barry

[cpg]

i personally keep it up 24x7 except if it's very very hot or we're out for a while and i don't need remote access.

the reasons are multiple:

• turning drives (and to a lesser extent electronics in general) kills them faster
• the power to turn them on and off is also to be counted - big spikes, which when the system is stable settles at lower power usages (i do run vns and the power/frequency applet and do not leave anything running like a browser with flash on imdb.com )
• the other two factors that kill drives are vibration and temperature variations, so i have the system well ventilated via fans and monitor their temperature. i do not restart it or stop it unless i have to

all that said, your drives may have power saving modes. recently i bought the greener drives from WD i think. they run cooler too.

Code: Select all

man hdparm

may help you tune their power settings. note that restarting their spin can take time and power also.

at one time not too long ago my full time job was power management for PC systems ... oh the good 'ol days.

[bsk]

No problem on the quick response Barry, im normally on the forum....well...just about 24/7 haha.

cpg had a good point on that and you should check that out.

Also, you are definitely better off with the newer hardware, 8 years is a bit much (im guilty of this as well, mines pushing 7) but honestly, there's not much you can do.

I do recommend if your going to be away for a day or more, shut it on down, I do that, but like you said in the first post, just from 12-7 will not make much difference, maybe an hours difference if that. You have to take into affect the shutdown spike (mind you on Linux its not as big as windows) and the boot up spike, and also the time it takes the system to tell itself "hey, hes not doing anything major, lets rest", if you get what I mean.

Now im FAR from a power expert, but I have not noticed a big jump in my electric bill and I was paying attention to it, so it might not be much to even notice (might have went up 4 bucks for me, don't remember).

[moredruid]

you can check some power-consuming stuff in your setup with powertop...
however, my system is drawing around 65W...
specs:
intel pentium dual core E5500 (I think) 2.2GHz
2GB RAM
everything onboard
1 ATA drive 80GB
1 SATA2 drive 750 GB
1 SATA2 drive 1000 GB
1 USB keyboard (which is polling less frequently thanks to powertop )

running headless of course, 'tis Linux

I now get better speed, more functionality and always on availability etc. for the same price (or even less) as my previous 320GB network drive with another USB drive attached to it (both drew around 35W each)

[chilli]

Thank you all for your input and knowledge. I have read different reviews stating turning electronics on and off shortens their lifespan (not as bad as heat, though), but I never considered the spikes in turning them on and off. I guess one could use a car as an example with the spike - when you start a car it idles high for a few seconds then it drops down to its normal idle setting once everything is running.

I am interested now to see if I can tune my hard drives mainly just to see what can be done. Since the CPU isn't overclocked, I assume it's drawing the 45 watts as stated on the packaging. So, all in all, my server is probably as energy efficient as it can get; I can live with that.

Finally, regarding the ancient hardware I was using, I have an uncle who gives me his hand-me-downs so I have this colossal monument of antiquated computer hardware growing on in my garage. I need to clean it out so I think I will build a few Linux systems and donate them to good causes; I just read about a Linux program called Qimo that's designed for kids and is based on Linux. Good way to recycle the old stuff. Long live the .isa card (just kidding, got rid of those last week!).

Thanks for everyone's advice and input on my suggestion. Maybe this thread should be moved to the Beginners section so it doesn't get asked again.

Take care, Barry

p.s. It's so much more pleasant to ask a question in a Linux forum than a Windoze forum.

[moredruid]

you should consider that if you're running your hda on a "normal" load the CPU won't draw the full wattage. If it's idle, usually the CPU gets throttled back to a lower speed (sometimes even half the speed) to be less energy consuming.

The best way to measure this is to have a wattage meter between the outlet and your hda, and then (if it has that capability) let it monitor the power draw for a week or so. Some meters can only show you the current value (which means you have to check yourself), but some have more functionalities and if you put in your $/KWh it will calculate exactly what it cost you to keep it running. If you then divide this by 3 you get your savings for keeping the hda off for 8 hrs a day, multiply that by 2 to see what it'll cost.

For me the offset was simple: I get an always on server (with more functionality than a regular NAS) to which I can add a drive easily while bumping the power draw with only 15-20W.

Get 3 external drives with network capability and you're:
1 - over the budget of a cheap homebuilt server (around $250 for a basic machine)
2 - paying more on your electric bill since the power draw for the external drives is around 100W (say 35W each), while your server is happily humming away at 65-70W
3 - using a lot of outlets that could be used for your printer/speakers/mobile charger/switch or router