Amahi getting bad press?

[t800]

Perhaps I should have titled this "IS Amahi getting bad bad press", and I think the answer is perhaps "Poor" rather than bad. I see an article sent to me from one of the WHS forums that disturbed me and prompted this post. And its typical of the negitive views that I'm seeing out there.The point of discussion being, should the Amahi website be addressing comparative usage between the two systems.

Now the death nail is half way WHS (Windows Home Server) coffin, users are looking for alternatives. For those have been to busy to notice, Microsoft is to axe the WHS along with a few other items due to the inability to supply a reliable drive extender. Something 'Greyhole' instanly address if only the visitors to the Amahi site knew what it was The majority I think are not highly technically motivated and would run for the hills at the sight of Linux Terminal. So the headless system that integrates into the Windows network that only requires a click to use gives Amahi popular instant appeal. So the expectations are fairly high before hitting the site of this being a good bet for a WHS replacment.

However, in the brief time a person spends at the site trying to draw comparisons certain details seem illusive which puts some folks instantly on the back foot. Let me paste an extract from such an article so you can see some blatant point that they were missing...

"I installed Amahi on my virtual server and did some VERY limited testing resulting in me determing Amahi is not the answer for me as my main storage system. For that I am going to go with unRAID, but may throw all my old drives (ie 500gig and less, plus some non SATA drives) into an old system and use Amahi as a backup of some files on the unRAID server."

Sorry but most folks have to google about to find out what 'Greyhole' is all about, and probably stumble on the old google code article explain its not ready yet. The other major point that gets a kicking in the forums is "Yeah, but how does it do scheduled backups like WHS". Its a valid point, other than taking the time to explore the "Crashplan" site video there is little explanation on the front end of the site of if or how this can be done. And what really expires after 30days? The users priority is "How many clicks does it take to get rebuild by hard drive" and "What do I click for that???"

I think perhaps Amahi is not quite mature enough yet and never had these refuges in mind. Prehaps bad timing in Amahi's development for this unwanted attention. Or perhaps some comparative explanation and how similar functionality can be achieved on the front end of the Amahi website may relieve some frustrations and misunderstandings about Amahi. The site shows what it does well like centralist resources and media sharing. The whole backup issue seems to require some sort of walk through foremost in most would be converts minds. And now HP are ducking out of the home server market the whole 'Home server' question is getting heated out there.

Thats my personal observations, look forward to your views on the topics (no flaming please LOL )

[sgtfoo]

I'm glad this was brought up.

I originally used WHS as my home server solution for backups and media serving.
I left it because WHS is expensive and functionality is limited. I was also not convinced with the storage pooling either.

By the time I was brave enough to change over to amahi, I had already dabbled in Linux environments, with 4 distros running on various machines at home. That being the case I was much more easy about getting into Fedora 12 and Amahi.
I only heard of amahi from other forums that mentioned amahi as an "easier than typical linux servers" solutions.

The masses that used WHS, are a rather closed circle as I see it and I don't think they understand how WHS is a "managed server" so to speak, just like amahi is a "managed server".

For the WHS people, I can agree that command-line for anything would be incredible scary and be a huge deterrent to getting amahi to be more popular. All the more demanded solutions in the wiki that enable things that truly SHOULD be one-click install (and yet because if command-line requirements, they are not) are things that would be truly one-click or a few clicks in WHS. Replacing all the CLI troubles now, with double-clickable scripts are the best way to facilitate this for WHS "refugees" as previously put.

Perhaps Amahi should market itself as not only a HDA, but also as a cleverly worded "Linux Home Server" solution.
Perhaps greyhole and all of its web-presence should be updated to mention that it is a reliable and viable storage pooling solution.

This whole concept however involves making a massive presence that I somehow feel would taint the open-source nature of all things Linux. While popularity is beneficial, I as well don't think Amahi is far-along in development enough to accomodate what people were accustomed to with WHS.

give it time!

[geekaccountant]

That was my post over at the WHS Show forums. One thing I tried to make clear in the post was how limited my testing was of the software. I actually still have it running on my virtual server and still play with it. However, I have concluded it is not the solution for me as my main storage server. Just like with WHS, I see a benefit and a downside to creating protection by coping the file to other drives. Since I have around 6tb of movies (all ones I own), using duplication would waste a LOT of space. And while I could just re-rip the DVD's, the reality is I probably would never spend that much time doing it. Therefore, I need some other type of protection - unRAID.

As for WHS, there are some things I love about it:

* Easy client automatic backup
* Fairly easy client restore (I have done this several times, mostly without any problems)
* Fairly easy restore of individual files
* Nice set of add-in apps

I don't use most of the other WHS features, so I can't really speak to those.


As for my limited testing of Amahi:

* I HATED how it automatically loaded the DHCP server. I leave that task to pfSense and Amahi immediately started causing problems on the network. It wasn't hard to stop the server, just wish it was off by default.

* Apps that I would like to use are more limited than WHS
* Web interface is pretty clean and easy to move around
* No built in way to backup PC's on the network like with WHS. I run Crashplan on my WHS, but just for cloud backup. I plan to test using it within my local network and Amahi.
* I run Ubuntu as a second OS on my Win7 machine (actually using it right now) and like it. However, other than appliances like my Tivo, Linux is more of a geek's OS. Tell the average user to type code or edit config files and they will look at you with a blank stare or say something like "What, that kind of stuff went away with DOS or Windows 3.11". As long as Linux requires these types of things, it will be limited to us geeks.
*As an example, to install Xenserver tools on my Windows based guest, just load the virtual DVD, click install and a few clicks later it is installed. For Ubuntu, installing the Xenserver tools this involved opening up a terminal window, locating the DVD drive (not as easy as I first thought), navigating to the proper directory on the drive and then running the install with the EXACT correct command in the terminal window, as root. The end result is the same, but one method is much easier.

* I never used Fedora, but from my limited testing, I may like it more than Ubuntu. In either case, I like it enough that I will be installing it on my Windows 7 machine as a guest OS in virtualbox, right along with Ubuntu.

In closing, IMO, Amahi still has some work to do. If not on the product then at least on the marketing/website. As I stated in my post over at the WHS forums, I am actually going to continue to test Amahi by moving it to an old box with a bunch of older drives. This will be used to backup some of the most important files (photos, scans, etc) on my unRAID server. Of course these files are also backed up offsite, but so much easier to get to them locally if needed. Being older drives, I should get to test Amahi with some drive failures.

Not trying to start a flame war, just my thoughts after some very LIMITED testing.

[t800]

Geekaccountant thanks for the reply. First and foremost no offense was intended and the words "...did some VERY limited testing resulting in me determing..." features in the first line of that text. This was not intended to be flame, if that is your perception please accept my apologies. It was purely for the purposes of illustrating an observation for the point of the discussion topic of ... "should the Amahi website be addressing comparative usage between the two systems"? Or thinking back before you started your very limited testing, was this based on the premise that this looked to be a candidate from the initial website impression?

The WHS community is fairly passionate bunch. And I have no doubt that this and other systems have been used in a comparative way to add leverage to the argument to MS that the WHS should be kept alive which is a fair argument. But I fail to understand why WHS users need to migrate just because it will no longer be supported when it ticks all the right boxes for them. So if folks are voting with there feet is the Amahi site providing that comparative information for them? Or even for that matter compared in the same context? And I am curious what what you like to see in the way of changes to the marketing/website?

Thanks again for your comments and good luck with the drive failure testing, look forward to your article, good, bad or indifferent

[geekaccountant]

Don't worry t800, no offense was taken. Sounds like you got my point also, that i had only done limited testing. I actually love trying out new OS's and software ever since I got into virtualization. I have something like 17 different OS's on my main system, which is 64bit Win7, running under Virtualbox. Not all of them at the same time of course. Actually Ubuntu is the only one that runs all the time, but that may change to Fedora once I use that some more.

As with most people, my setup is different and what I want is different. While Amahi is not the product for to use as my main storage OS, I did find it interesting enough that I want to continue testing as time allows.

I think Amahi is going to run into a lot of the same problems WHS did, the average consumer doesn't understand the need for scheduled backups, much less the need for another computer to act as the server. Therefore, the market is really limited to a niche group of users, who can be vocal, but in the grand scheme of things is a small group. Of course I am part of that group and it can get frustrating trying to get people to understand the need for backup and to take preemptive action. But to date, I have not convinced any of them to buy a WHS which is already built for them and all they have to do is head down to Best Buy.

I did convince a co-worker to go to Best Buy and look at them. When Monday came around I looked forward to talking to them about their purchase of the WHS and all the benefits they will be getting. Guess what he purchased. A USB Western Digital hard drive, saying it was only $100+ while the WHS thing was over $400 (pricing not exact as I don't remember the amounts). And there you go, the closest I ever got to getting someone to buy a WHS.

I wish Amahi all the luck and I will continue testing the software, and reading the forums.

[uslacker]

t800, where did you hear MS was ending the WHS product? I know they are pulling drive pooling, but so far as I know the product is still alive and well and the beta of the next version is well underway.

[geekaccountant]

Yea, I don't think MS has mentioned killing WHS. Some people are speculating they will, especially with HP dropping the WHS line, but the plan right now is a new beta is coming out in January.

[t800]

t800, where did you hear MS was ending the WHS product? I know they are pulling drive pooling, but so far as I know the product is still alive and well and the beta of the next version is well underway.

Check out http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3 ... ww0185.mp3

Meanwhile the cash rich but resource poor MS has acquired certain undisclosed Intellectual copyrights for "IP Linux" from Novell as part of a consortium lead by MS under another name. Rumor control in the Linux community has been a busy with speculation as to what the package contained worth a large 6 figure CASH deal.

It would surprise me if there revamped server division started offering a linux based server and potentially an Amahi style system. But this is the same stable speculating that Banshee will be the new media player in Win8, LOL. Personally I remember Ballmer openly branding us as "Them dam'n Software Communists" and was out to destroy Linux, and still threatening legal action over patents. Please excuse the old school for the air of mistrust about MS, it's not unfounded.