Suggestion that we drop the Fedora base, and go with Ubuntu

Do you support the idea of moving the underlying Operating System to Ubuntu over Fedora?

Move to Ubuntu
4
50%
Stay on Fedora
4
50%
Alternate between the two
0
No votes
Don't care either way
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 8
PatrickDickey
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:52 am

Suggestion that we drop the Fedora base, and go with Ubuntu

Postby PatrickDickey » Thu May 14, 2015 12:51 pm

I'm tossing this out for opinions from everyone, and hopefully consideration by the development team. In the past, we tried an Ubuntu-based version of Amahi (on the 12.04 LTS). I'm suggesting that we drop the Fedora based version, or at least make the Ubuntu one a default moving on.

The reason that I'm proposing this is simple: Amahi development isn't on the same release schedule as Fedora (or Ubuntu), which means that people who are running the latest version lose support for the underlying OS at some point. Fedora only supports their version for 25 to 26 months (1 month past the next "official" release), where Ubuntu supports their LTS for five years.

Unless the development team is going to get enough help to create new versions (or update the current version to the latest release of the OS), it makes more sense to stick with an Operating System that will provide us with updates for a longer period of time.

So my proposal is that the team try to migrate Amahi 7 to Ubuntu 12.04 (or even 14.04), and then start developing Amahi 8 for Ubuntu 14.04 or 16.04.

Thank you for considering this.
Patrick.

User avatar
cpg
Administrator
Posts: 2597
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:40 am
Contact:

Re: Suggestion that we drop the Fedora base, and go with Ubuntu

Postby cpg » Thu May 14, 2015 2:24 pm

Hi Patrick,

We will be releasing Amahi 8 on Fedora 21. See the Amahi 8 alpha release page.

We could go on for a long time about this. We tried Ubuntu in Amahi 6 and the experiment did not work out for many reasons. We thought the grass would be greener, but that was not the case. Similar issues with the repos, etc. Worse installer, similar hardware support, but ultimately, Fedora is a more professional release and now with their Server releases, we may even be able to switch to Centos in the future for really long-term support.

Ultimately, it comes down to the development team (which I head). We lost our Ubuntu lead (Frans) shortly after the release and that put a huge burden on the rest of the team, like porting apps, etc. etc. At this time, Frans has become more acquainted with Fedora and their much much better ARM/embedded support, which is also a major consideration.

We are not totally closed to it, though. Do you feel that you can help with an Ubuntu release?
If so, the platform has most things there and the installer could be updated easily.

The harder parts are the apps, though we have developed an automation framework that would make it easier to keep them up.

Definitely let's talk if you are interested in jumping in and leading this effort!
My HDA: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3570K CPU @ 3.40GHz on MSI board, 8GB RAM, 1TBx2+3TBx1

marcerickson
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:20 pm

Re: Suggestion that we drop the Fedora base, and go with Ubuntu

Postby marcerickson » Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:26 pm

In my opinion, basing a server on an OS that's only supported for 24 months is short sighted. That's a more rapid release cycle than even Microsoft uses!

Please, please, change over to Ubuntu.

marcerickson
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:20 pm

Re: Suggestion that we drop the Fedora base, and go with Ubuntu

Postby marcerickson » Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:27 pm

Agreed, Fedora has a better installer - but why does that matter so much? The installer is used ONCE.

User avatar
cpg
Administrator
Posts: 2597
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:40 am
Contact:

Re: Suggestion that we drop the Fedora base, and go with Ubuntu

Postby cpg » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:32 pm

There are many practical reasons. But first: we want to start releasing faster and not be permanently behind.

The other thing to keep in mind is this: the systems will keep on running, for years and years if left going. And they are behind firewalls, not out in the open internet. They are built for reliability and will last well past any OS updates have stopped. If nothing else, non-security-related OS updates, present sources of potential instability.

We also tried it, .. we thought the grass would be greener, but in fact, it was not. http://www.amahi.org/faq/does-amahi-support-ubuntu

It was all a mirage, led by the enthusiasm of the community. In the end there were quite a few more issues.
  • Repo issues were similar (they vanish, introduce issues with caching, etc. This is subtle, hard to explain and hard to manage at scale.
  • We could not easily patch upstream, it was impossible to get the attention of anyone in the Ubuntu community, whereas in the Fedora (and CentOS) communities, they were open to receiving patches and we had multiple times where we contributed releases to packages that we had patched for our community, sometimes in record times.
  • At some point we volunteered to maintain some packages that were edgier and we had expertise with and we did for a long time (passenger).
  • The Ubuntu community have little interest in the Linux community at large, whereas the Fedora/CentOS community have more of a leadership position.
  • Ubuntu has much less (if at all) mature (and degree of commitment) to ARM, which is something we're interested in for migrating to more power efficient hardware platforms
  • The RPM system is, in the end, more mature and better documented than the APT system. More professional and better documented wins. We thought APT packages would be more polished, but in fact were harder to maintain.
  • Our Ubuntu developer realized all these things and how hard it is to do in that community. He had a change in life situation and had to slow down. Later when he came back, he realized Fedora (and maybe one day CentOS) worked better for Amahi.
Does that answer your questions/concerns?
My HDA: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3570K CPU @ 3.40GHz on MSI board, 8GB RAM, 1TBx2+3TBx1

User avatar
hemington1
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:38 pm
Location: Perth Western Australia

Re: Suggestion that we drop the Fedora base, and go with Ubuntu

Postby hemington1 » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:39 am

I don't know if it was just me, but Ruby would often crash on Ubuntu, I was forever re-booting my server. Googling the problem showed long term issues with getting Ubuntu to play nice with Ruby. I'm happy to stay with Fedora. And being headless, it doesn't really matter what OS (from a user point of view) is supporting Amahi.......... :D
Amahi 11
Intel i7 quad core 2.8GHz
1 GiB Geforce graphics
16 GiB RAM
Sagemcom Gateway 3864 modem/router

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest