Paid Apps, Further Growth, Further Discussion

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Paid Apps, Further Growth, Further Discussion

Postby DTgreat » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:24 pm

Here's a good place to discuss your feelings about paid apps, the continuing development of Amahi, and how we can grow as a community, specifically coming off of the Sunday March 6th Facebook post.

As always, please keep it civil, no flaming, and all constructive opinions are welcome.
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Re: Paid Apps, Further Growth, Further Discussion

Postby DTgreat » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:34 pm

Key Features Remaining Free:

Basic Amahi Services (VPN, HDA Sub-Domains, Samba Shares, Web Based Application Platform)
No Advertisements other than on!

Ideas for generating revenue for Amahi:

Support -> Via Accounts
Application One Click Installation -> Convenience Fee/Support/Updates
Sync Accounts -> Amahi Sync/Premium/Ninja Accounts
Last edited by DTgreat on Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:07 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Paid Apps, Further Growth, Further Discussion

Postby ghstryder » Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:24 pm

It would seem that no one has any complaints, problems, or suggestions, DTgreat, nice work, you are indeed a miracle worker.

I was going to suggest a detailed report explaining the necessity of going to paid apps as well as the storage subscription. I would include the definition of FOSS, because there seems to be a lot of confusion about the meaning of the word free. There also seemed to be a fair amount of chest-pounding about "the" GPL. That is a subject worthy of some discussion as well, you might as well get out in front of that for those willing to read.

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Re: Paid Apps, Further Growth, Further Discussion

Postby radioz » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:33 am

Which apps will we now have to pay for?

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Re: Paid Apps, Further Growth, Further Discussion

Postby dinomic » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:35 am

I was going to suggest a detailed report explaining the necessity of going to paid apps as well as the storage subscription.
Without having to think too hard about it, there is one obvious reason why Amahi as a platform needs to generate *some* money... The hosted services!!!

How do you think your Dynamic DNS works so that you can find your HDA over any internet connection? How do you think the apps and updates, etc, get delivered to your HDA? In case you don't know, this will require a Live server to be sitting somewhere on the internet. That costs money! And as more users start using Amahi, the loads and demand on that server (or more likely set of servers!!) gets larger and larger. Who's going to pay for that?

I haven't even mentioned the cost of support. As Amahi becomes more widespread, the requirements for more low level support become more and more critical.

My point is, let's show some understanding about what it takes to deliver services for Amahi. So instead of trying to shout about this project being Open Source (and hence having to be free) let's focus on giving the team ideas on what would be good (and fair) ways for them to generate a revenue stream to at least cover their costs. You can bet your life that not even the most dedicated person/team could sustain something like this off their own back for long. At the same time, what would we as users want to see appear on the platform that would make our lives easier/better?
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Re: Paid Apps, Further Growth, Further Discussion

Postby bigfoot65 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:11 am

Well put. Many users don't realize our team is small and all volunteer. It takes quite a bit of time and effort to keep Amahi out front. Not to mention the 200+ apps that are either live, beta, or works in progress. I would hope no one would expect that all this, plus live support, can be done entirely with donations and for free.

As for the question of how you know what apps are available as paid, check the web site. Log in and go to the app store. Any app that has a convenience fee will reflect as such. It does not show in your HDA available apps list until purchased. Only the free apps will show in the available list until app purchases are made. Then those will also show up for install.

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Re: Paid Apps, Further Growth, Further Discussion

Postby crxtasy12 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:15 pm

I have a few questions and comments for you. I first heard of Amahi on a podcast called Floss Weekly. I took a look at your software and found it to be cool, but nothing that I wasn't already doing. So I passed it up. I had, however, been watching your project since then. So finally I installed it on my server during the Fedora 14 beta trial. I then started reading your wiki's. I have been making minor corrections to your documentation when I found mistakes. I had hoped to join your project and help out where I can. Since my programing skills are lacking I chose to help with documentation. I then read a post about the project deciding to make apps paid.

Here are my questions:
If I pay for an app, when your next version comes out do I have to pay for your app again?
What about updates to those apps?
How do I test a paid app?
If I find I can't use the app will I be refunded?
Why isn't this forum post not linked in a news post on your system?

Here are my comments to you.
Forums are mostly used for help? If you really wanted a real discussion you should link this on your site.
I would of rather you discussed the move in a more public way as to engage your community.
I think you cheapen your community by posting about how we are all free loaders.
I would of rather gotten a message for more help with the project and apps.

I do know building a project from ground up is hard. It is also hard to attract developers to your project.

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Re: Paid Apps, Further Growth, Further Discussion

Postby rjwaldren » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:41 pm

I won't sign up for a premium plan simply because I won't use the features, I only intend to use a small numbers of apps and the prices seem reasonable provided they do recieve special TLC should problems arise.

I do question "No ads" from the feature comparison table. Are we only referring to the ads on the website - such as the google ads I see right now above my topic window? That's how I read it and I'm fine with that. But if my free or not amahi server ever phones out for an ad for me to view at \\hda it will meet fdisk as soon as the latest debian installer has completed downloading. ;)

It's a great project and miles ahead of most other solutions out there, the dev, certainly deserve to be rewarded and expenses taken care of... But I also know of several discussion only forums that provide no real product that cover thier expenses very well with a simple donate button, modest (subject relevant) ad's and an annual donation drive.
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Re: Paid Apps, Further Growth, Further Discussion

Postby cpg » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:38 am

these are actually good questions. we will put them in the faq in a couple of days when things ease out a bit from the recent overload (and taxes, and some server moves that caused some headaches, and new users subscribing and app store work, etc. etc.).

i wanted to at least answer quick here because i do not have the time/energy to write a more lengthy response at the moment.

we are also preparing a blog post to address all these issues and thank you for raising these questions. we definitely need to answer all these concerns (e.g. we also want to put up a page explaining the app store, but it's not done and the pressure and angry emails we were getting to release DLNA and a couple of other apps was tremendous, so we had to stop everything and get them ready, even if the public facing side of the app store is still undergoing changes).

no question that these are things we have to answer as we go forth in this adventure.

oh, yeah, no, these are not ads in the HDA proper, though to be honest we would like to be able to put a small sponsor image at the bottom of the Latest News in the dashboard.

part of the philosophy is this: would i like if i used someone else's products or web site and did that?

if the answer is no, we probably do not want to do it. simple as that. the truth is that the advertisements do not bring much at all. every bit helps when things are tough though.
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Re: Paid Apps, Further Growth, Further Discussion

Postby agwerschky » Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:11 am

I would encourage you to answer some of these questions above, as I think people are being misled by the uncertainty.

Just last night I was installing amahi for a neighbor, and we wanted to add squeezebox. This led us to the app store, with a price of 2.99 (unfortunately still in beta).

His questions:
1. What do I get for my money? Is this one time or every time there's an update?
2. How quickly will they get out security updates?
3. Why is the OS upgraded without the apps?
4. How much of this money goes to fedora?

My Questions:
1. If I submit an app, and amahi charges for it, what's my cut?
2. If there's a paid app, like Squeezebox, can I submit a free version of it? If not, why not?

I understand that some of these questions are uncomfortable, but Amahi is accepting money for either a service or a product now. I strongly believe it's in your own self interest to make sure the terms of said transaction are extremely clear.

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