New User Considering Ninja Investment

krell
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Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:23 am

New User Considering Ninja Investment

Postby krell » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:42 am

Hi. I'm a relatively new user of Amahi. Been watching it for a while, even tried an install a few weeks ago, then aborted upon learning of the for-fee apps and new ninja status. Frankly, I was setting up a web server on which I run 4+ blogs (with new ones on the way). I threw up a little in my mouth when confronted with the prospect of paying for a free, open source, app -- WordPress. So I started over, and I've got a headless Ubuntu server running my sites. Was it as easy to set up as Amahi, no. But was it 100% free, yes! I'm far from a Linux newbie, so I didn't really need the "ease" of install.

So what brought me back? Well, I am now installing a media server for my home use. I previously had web and media server combined, but am now separating them for a number of reasons. In any event, what interested me in Amahi again was the easy setup of the Greyhole storage pooling (which, despite my familiarity with Linux, looks daunting to set up independently of Amahi). It turned out it wasn't going to be that easy, as I ran into a couple problems (nothing the forums or wiki couldn't help me solve), and still need to move my Landing Zone since my root file system is only 25Gb.

Now I am reconsidering the "price of entry." I like to support organizations that have great ideas and implement them well. This is why I pay for Dropbox, Slacker, Remember the Milk, etc. These are great services that I could use for free, but I want to do more so I support them (and of course get some benefits like more storage space, no ads, etc.). From what I've seen, Amahi is of that caliber due to the way you guys have executed your software/services.

The issues I have (and the reasons for this post) are as follows:

1. I am nervous about the future of this project. Can you share any stats as far as how many ninja members you have currently, and what kind of sign-up rates you've seen over the last few months (i.e., are they going up, down, steady)? I don't want to throw $160 your way (which is more than I pay Dropbox, Slacker and RTM in a year combined) only to see it go down the drain when you fold up shop in 4 months. I really have no way of knowing how stable this project is, given all the recent changes and pretty harsh backlash you've received.

2. I think it is ridiculous that ninja users still have to pay for apps. If I'm paying $160 per year for a service, I don't expect to be nickel and dimed for apps. Sure, ninja users get a discount (wow, 20%, that's not very significant), but I don't think it makes sense as a business model to charge such a high annual fee and then still charge for open source, albeit repackaged, apps. By the way, isn't that a violation of the user licenses for these apps? I would guess that it is. So, my question is, has thought been given to the idea of making all apps free for ninja users, and charging non-ninja users for them. I personally think this would make the ninja signups increase exponentially, because I'm guessing your long-time users would be much more willing to go the subscription model than to start paying for Amahi DLNA after getting it free for so long. Just my personal opinion.

Just wanted to let you know, this is a hard pill to swallow, despite my desire to do so. I'll continue to think about it, but in the meantime I'd appreciate it if someone from Amahi could respond to my questions, above.

BTW, if I do become a ninja, I'm going to explore the possibility of helping with testing and perhaps packaging some apps of my own as well (which will all be free, of course). ;)

krell
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:23 am

Is this project alive?

Postby krell » Fri May 20, 2011 6:46 am

It's been over a month and no reply from the Amahi team. Is this project still alive?

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cpg
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Re: New User Considering Ninja Investment

Postby cpg » Fri May 20, 2011 2:21 pm

No, we're just really busy.

We like to keep the project clean and healthy. Usually we prefer to skip over posts that have somewhat inflammatory language. Since you insists, here is an answer.

The one-click install fee for apps is for the convenience of the installer. It's really not selling the software. The goal is to make Amahi successful in a way that people find it valuable. The apps and the subscriptions seemed to fit that bill after many many months of looking at various options and discussing with the community.

Amahi preserves and does not restrict the license(s) of the software delivered. The ones that are binary and have open source licenses are in our source code control tree. You can recompile them and install them by hand. Not that we can or even would want to restrict the license, mind you (Amahi is open source too).

Like all open source, this gives you an unprecedented situation - you get the app and the source. That's something you do not even get with proprietary software. Check the Free Software Definition
“Free software” does not mean “noncommercial.” A free program must be available for commercial use, commercial development, and commercial distribution. Commercial development of free software is no longer unusual; such free commercial software is very important. ...
In any case, subscriptions have been good (if a little on the the low side after the initial announcement) and the team is looking at how to put that to beef things up in Amahi development to bring more and better things, in a more stable manner, faster.

Hopefully that answers your question. If not, please ask more ... without getting too much into strong language please.
My HDA: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3570K CPU @ 3.40GHz on MSI board, 8GB RAM, 1TBx2+3TBx1

krell
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Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:23 am

Re: New User Considering Ninja Investment

Postby krell » Fri May 20, 2011 2:43 pm

I'm sorry, I really didn't intend to be "inflammatory" or to use "strong" language. I just wanted to relay my honest opinion and give you what I thought might be some good feedback. I actually felt like I was pretty balanced because I did state that I am impressed with Amahi overall and really want to invest in it by becoming a Ninja member. Of my entire post, only the points relayed in #2 are even bordering on "strong" (though certainly not "inflammatory"). I honestly thought you'd appreciate some honest feedback from a prospective customer. I know you guys have been getting a lot of bad feedback based on the changes to the model, and while my concerns echo some of that, I really think it's been a bit too harsh -- Amahi is, at its core, a great free product. I've been using the completely free version for a month now and I am quite impressed. I have used a lot of different OSes, tons of different software, and experimented with many different setups -- and Amahi's core offering is among the best. I haven't used Windows Home Server, but I imagine a lot of people converting from that to this will find themselves pleasantly surprised. As a business owner, I'd never ignore some negative feedback, especially when it's balanced with good and it is clear it's coming from an honest place.

Anyway, thank you for responding. I am pleased to know this project is still very much alive and I'll likely be contributing to that very soon. Right now, I'm trying to resolve a small issue I'm having where I am not able to use apps easily because the "addresses" don't work (i.e., typing "phpmyadmin" into the address bar does not take me to the app). I've posted separately here in the forums hoping to find someone who can help me troubleshoot this. I'll be tinkering with this over the weekend in hopes of getting it to work one way or the other.

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cpg
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Re: New User Considering Ninja Investment

Postby cpg » Fri May 20, 2011 6:48 pm

Yes, it was balanced, but we all have busy lives and certain bits just turn people off and we move on, that's all.

I don't think we got a lot of "bad feedback" - as you say, there all feedback is good. We only had a couple of trolls, not too bad. We can only improve from negative feedback, though.

Thanks for the kind words.

We spend quite a bit of time thinking how to make Amahi viable long term.

One of the avenues is hardware vendors pre-installing Amahi and customizing boxes so taht people can simply buy them and not have to go through the whole installation process. It was hard to get any kind of engagement with them only on the basis of number of users. We had to demonstrate to hardware vendors that some part of Amahi was worth to someone to pay for, and that we had found that formula. We have started to do so.

The expectation is to be able to get more engagement on some fronts. Plus with the revenue from the service, we do plan to evolve things faster.
My HDA: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3570K CPU @ 3.40GHz on MSI board, 8GB RAM, 1TBx2+3TBx1

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